Religion and Other Nonsense.

[EcazS]

[randomNonsense]
Why don't you prove that you exist while proving that you don't exist but prove that you exist in a way that makes it look like you're proving that you don't exist and then switch and prove that you don't exist in a way that makes it look like you're proving that you exist then make a big "proving-statement" and prove that the statement isn't false but still you have to prove it false but prove it true.
[/randomNonsense]

I think we all can agree that Scientology is the best thing ever.
/sarcasm

[Tino]

Just to touch up on the point of God again, if you really think about it rationally, you just cannot possibly say for certain there is a God. For those who don't, know rationalism dates back from the Enlightenment and means that everything can be solved by, essentially, using common sense and logical thinking. Unlike what many people think, this does not mean one needs to deny the existence of a god or any supernatural presence for that matter, but it should put one to think about it.

Religion is great for your own stability, and they teach great morals to which you can hold on. However, it should not be the only thing people can reach out to, and they should also not try to convert others just for the sake of expanding their church or something. If people which to join a certain religion, they will eventually. If they do not believe, so be it. This is really one of main problems with religion, the fact that people keep fighting over it, and that religions seem to become more of a business. I mean, look at the wealth of the Catholic church for example!

That said, I am an atheist myself. I do not mind other people being religious, unless they start trying to convert me. Here in the Netherlands, we have people who are part of the Jehova branch (don't know if you have these in other countries too) of christianity, who go from door to door trying to convert people. When they show up on my door-step, I simply ask them leave, and if they persist, cold as it may be, I just shut the door in their faces. I absolutely hate it when they do that.

So long story short, I'm an atheist, but don't mind religion as long as it's within reason

[EcazS]

In Sweden we have the Jehova branch too. The thing here is though, they're always holding a bible and they're dressing in white and blue when they come knock on the door. I simply just open the door and if I see someone holding a bible I just close the door in their face immediately.

But they never seem to learn, they still come here

[jacek]

Just to touch up on the point of God again, if you really think about it rationally, you just cannot possibly say for certain there is a God. For those who don't, know rationalism dates back from the Enlightenment and means that everything can be solved by, essentially, using common sense and logical thinking. Unlike what many people think, this does not mean one needs to deny the existence of a god or any supernatural presence for that matter, but it should put one to think about it.

Religion is great for your own stability, and they teach great morals to which you can hold on. However, it should not be the only thing people can reach out to, and they should also not try to convert others just for the sake of expanding their church or something. If people which to join a certain religion, they will eventually. If they do not believe, so be it. This is really one of main problems with religion, the fact that people keep fighting over it, and that religions seem to become more of a business. I mean, look at the wealth of the Catholic church for example!

That said, I am an atheist myself. I do not mind other people being religious, unless they start trying to convert me. Here in the Netherlands, we have people who are part of the Jehova branch (don't know if you have these in other countries too) of christianity, who go from door to door trying to convert people. When they show up on my door-step, I simply ask them leave, and if they persist, cold as it may be, I just shut the door in their faces. I absolutely hate it when they do that.

So long story short, I'm an atheist, but don't mind religion as long as it's within reason

Most sensible thing I heard (read) so far today, although I have just got up.

We have door to door people too, they stopped coming after I told then we were Pagans so that might be something to try

I also get bothered on the way to uni about once a month by people from something called "The New Jesus Centre" according to their name tags. They always start with "What brings you the most happiness in life ?" which is obviously impossible to answer, I never got past that but I guess the next thing is "This very boring book will bring you some".

[Temor]

Maybe I am fake...

You may just be the first Artificial Intelligence and you're just a computer with brains!

That would be sort of cool, I think.

[pasqo83]

I believe there is a God. U hear about sightings of Ghosts and stuff like that, I believe they didnt transfer over to the "other" side. The religious factor, hmmmm not to sure, but then again, why is it there hasn't been a better biblical reference than the ones that already exist? .. Its all soooo philosphical.

Watch zeitgeist, very interesting if you haven't heard of it already.

[jacek]

U hear about sightings of Ghosts and stuff like that

Those are usually by crazy people !

[pasqo83]

U hear about sightings of Ghosts and stuff like that

Those are usually by crazy people !

I've seen ghost before, then I passed out and I've heard like ghost talks inside my room (the house is an old victorian house from back in the.... yep you guest it... victorian times

I defo believe in Ghosts.. that mean i'm crazy my mum said im not crazy, that means im not crazy

[EcazS]

I've seen ghost before, then I passed out and I've heard like ghost talks inside my room

I once saw ghosts too, then I realized my medication made me hallucinate. True story.

Honestly, I think you're imagining those things,
1) Because you're young (maybe).
2) Because you believe in ghosts.
3) You WANT TO see/hear ghosts.
4) It's an old house, they make weird noises. My dad's old house sounded like a chainsaw when it was windy.

I've always wanted to see a wild bear so now whenever I'm outside I think I see a bear but it's usually a brow log or something stupid like that.

Let me ask you, whenever you see the "ghosts" and hear them is it day/bright outside or do you have a lot of lights turned on?

[pasqo83]

Let me ask you, whenever you see the "ghosts" and hear them is it day/bright outside or do you have a lot of lights turned on?

My brother has and it was my grandma's mum he saw, same with my gran in the same place.

I believe in Ghosts as there are sightings and have seen it first hand happen to me, it might be that they don't exist and its the power of the sub-conscience mind that wants me to believe it is but I believe there is a God and when we talk about a holy spirit, its our spirit that morphs and some doesn't reach its destination.

[EcazS]

My brother has and it was my grandma's mum he saw, same with my gran in the same place.

Well, do you know if it was bright or not?

A pretty good example during a research in the early 1950s,
so basically they took people from the military (i think it was 5 all together) and they were placed in a big house with 10 rooms, not at the same time, and they had to live in that house with almost zero light in 7 days. Most windows were sealed shut so no light could pass through and some smaller windows was left open for daylight to come through and they had one lamp in the kitchen, just one lamp in that whole house.

The first day went good, so did the second day the third day however most of them started to "doubt" what they were seeing. One of them thought he saw his wife standing in one of the open windows later to disappear. The fourth-fifth day they started hearing things and the sixth day they could barely handle it. On the last day when they were let out most of them were sitting by the door or avoiding all light so they could hide better. One of them said he was hiding from all the mentally ill people walking around in the hallway.

Point of this was to better understand the effect of absence of light on our brain. Absence of light can and will make us hallucinate and some people are "better" at picking this up. When I was younger I thought I saw moving object whenever it was dark. I could have been in a dark room for 5 minutes and I started seeing things.

Which is why I'm asking if there were lights when he supposedly saw those ghosts.

I actually had the "honor" of being in a shut house for 4 days when I was in the southern parts of Sweden.

[jacek]

I defo believe in Ghosts.. that mean i'm crazy

Yes

it might be that they don't exist and its the power of the sub-conscience mind that wants me to believe it

It's the power of the conscious mind

Although there are videos, like this one of a sheet by the looks of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh_JhfzxJr0

and this one of some open cupboards and a movie maker effect

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXqCexZQzJ4

[pasqo83]

Although there are videos, like this one of a sheet by the looks of it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh_JhfzxJr0
and this one of some open cupboards and a movie maker effect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXqCexZQzJ4

I'll watch them when I go home tonight as they blocked youtube at work - anyone know a way around VPN system? lol

[libeco]

Maybe I am fake...

Hmmm, there's a thought... Usually ugly techies pretend to be pretty girls, but perhaps you're a pretty girl pretending to be a programming nerd?

As for religion: as long as religious people don't bother me, I'm ok with them...

[EcazS]

Usually ugly techies pretend to be pretty girls

No, fat single creepy 40-year old hairy dudes pretend to be pretty girls. I read the news, I know.

[jacek]

Hmmm, there's a thought... Usually ugly techies pretend to be pretty girls, but perhaps you're a pretty girl pretending to be a programming nerd?

did you just call my ugly

[EcazS]

Hmmm, there's a thought... Usually ugly techies pretend to be pretty girls, but perhaps you're a pretty girl pretending to be a programming nerd?

did you just call my ugly

For him to actually call you ugly you have to pretend to actually be a pretty girl....Are you? Hmmm

[jacek]

For him to actually call you ugly you have to pretend to actually be a pretty girl....Are you? Hmmm

In a word... no

[Dylan]

I wanted to respond to Tino but didn't have time this morning:

I have a similar problem with religion being shoved down my throat, and I often reply with logical arguments against it. I have no problem with peoples beliefs, I will accept them no matter how strange (*cough* Scientology *cough*), however I do not need them forced upon me. If you want to have an open ended intelligent discussion on religion, I am open for that as well.

My second problem lies in the use of the word atheist. Atheist literally means not theist or not having the believe in a God or deity. People, when using this term, or hearing the term, generally thinks it puts you into an exclusive group; as the word Catholic or Muslim does. This is not the case; saying I am an atheist merely tells you what I do not believe in, and it only does that very vaguely.

It would be like someone asking you:
"What is your profession" and you responding "Well, I am not a doctor." This statement is true both for people who work in law, and people who work with computers; two very different fields of work.

Because people misunderstand this, they often think of atheism as a religion itself. This brings with it the implication that there are rules, guidelines and believes held true by all atheists, which is simply wrong. Due to this misunderstanding, people often accuse atheists as being hypocritical and claiming there are scriptures and things of that manner, which then leads to an argument on a totally unrelated (or seemingly unrelated) topic.

Now, this brings me to my stance on religion, I would call myself an Agnostic-Atheist-Naturalist. Basically, this says that I do not believe in an deity which claims the exclusive creation, omnipotence, omniscience or omni-benevolence. However, I cannot necessarily say I reject all religious claims, as simply I do not know all religious claims. The naturalist part makes implications about my believes, meaning I reject all supernatural phenomenon such as ghosts, spirits, etc. By saying this (if people have a comprehensive understanding of the words), I can make a much more accurate saying about my beliefs, and we can get onto a topic which actually interests me, be it the moral contradictions of the Judo-Christian God, or the simple existence of the former.

People often ask me why I take this stance, and I can have many reasons. The least convincing to most people, but most convincing to myself, is that there is simply no reason I should believe in such claims. If they can be proven, I shall accept them, until that is done I shall not. People often then go to tell me that I cannot disprove the existence, therefore believe is rational as well and I go on to tell them about the logical fallacy they committed and explain burden of proof. Instead of predicating that entire argument here, I will summarize it in a single sentence:
If I were to tell you: there is a magical cupcake floating around the galaxy of Andromeda, one which when eaten gives infinite knowledge, you would reject the claim. Prove to me that it isn't real, until then I take it as fact.

For that reason, anyone taking the religious stance is making an (in my opinion) irrational decision, for the mere reason that there is no evidence suggesting we should.

After that has been set, and more often than not it will not affect the persons stance and they will not take it as a valid point, the argument generally turns to arguments which have the simple purpose of changing someone's mind. They are not always sound logically, but they are very often convincing, for instance:
If God is all powerful, he can do anything;
Therefore, it should be possible for God to make a rock which is too heavy for him to lift;
Meaning he is not omnipotent.

Anyways, this post was meant to simply state my stance on things, and my reaction to people who push religion at you. I will not go around promoting my naturalism, unless a debate is brought up.

As for dealing with the Jehovah branch, I generally have formal debates. They normally end with me offending them, in a simple rational point about their complex irrational nature.

[jacek]

I wish I disagreed with that so I could reply to the longest post that will ever exist on the forum with something more than "I agree"

You can ask any Christian if they believe in the Greek God Zeus, they will say no, you can then ask them why not. And they can't answer without saying they don't believe in the Christian God or just accepting that there is more than one God. Equally useful in these pointless arguments which as you say tend to be not based on any fact, rather both sides wanting to convert the other.

[Dylan]

Ahaha, I got typing and then realized I had typed a wall. I was planning on talking about more, but figured I'd leave it at that for now

It's true about Christians and their hypocritical thoughts on Gods. "You're evil as you are atheist", "well do you believe in mythical Gods?", "Of course not.", "You are then an atheist as well!"

Which just stresses my point of the misunderstood comprehension of the word "atheist."